Cooperant Learning Podcast

Summary:
In this conversation, Dr. Ricky Price guests to discuss the critical aspects of transitioning students with disabilities from school to the workforce and where behavior analysis may fit into the mix. We talked about the importance of self-determination, the role of IDEA in transition assessments, and the need for individualized approaches that don't just check a box. Ricky highlights the gaps in training for educators, the necessity for collaboration between behavior analysts and special education professionals, and the importance of teaching self-advocacy skills early and often.
GuestsDr. Price (he/they) is a white cis-gendered gay scholar with over a decade of experience supporting the transition from school to work for individuals with disabilities/disabled individuals. He holds Master's degrees in Rehabilitation/Vocational Counseling, Kinesiology - Adaptive Sport, and Applied Behavior Analysis - Autism from Michigan State University, and a Ph.D. in Special Education from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Price is passionate about understanding the diverse identities and experiences of individuals with disabilities/disabled individuals, a commitment shaped by growing up with a family member with a disability and witnessing the systemic shortcomings in including and integrating people with disabilities/disabled people in education and society.
Listen now:🎧 Spotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/7jEtOKZjbww4TCL9YfOMZF?si=490b8beed95c406b🍎 Apple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cooperant-learning-podcast/id1817490272▶️ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@cooperantlearning 🌐 Website → https://www.cooperantlearning.com
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It was a privilege to hear Dr. Al Poling discuss his extensive career in behavior analysis and the lessons he's learned along the way. What started as an interview about his work using operant conditioning procedures to train rats to detect mines and TB morphed into more of a career introspective with the lessons Dr. Poling has learned along the way. 
We focused on the APOPO project, an NGO utilizing scent detection animals to address global issues such as landmine detection and tuberculosis. Dr. Poling discusses the importance of collaboration between behavior analysts and other disciplines, the challenges of data collection in applied settings (even live minefields!), and the need for critical thinking in addressing societal challenges. Dr. Poling reflects on his career, emphasizing the role of community support and resilience in professional development, while also addressing his contributions to behavioral pharmacology.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction 01:29 Meet Dr. Al Poling03:07 The APOPO Project Overview04:16 Involvement with APOPO07:20 Training Scent Detection Rats13:19 Applications of Scent Detection17:07 Expanding the Use of Rats in Detection19:00 The Global Impact of Tuberculosis21:53 Research and Humanitarian Efforts in Disease Detection23:47 The Role of Behavior Analysts in Collaborative Research26:52 Advocacy and Gender Disparities in Behavior Analysis30:51 The Importance of Community and Support in Science32:04 Addressing Global Crises with Behavior Analysis38:18 Advice for the Next Generation of Behavior Analysts42:55 The Role of Serotonin in Mental Health Medications45:39 Challenges in Medication Management for Behavioral Issues47:29 The Impact of Benzodiazepines on Anxiety Treatment49:21 The Importance of Data in Behavioral Analysis52:17 Reflections on a Long Career in Behavior Analysis
Listen now:🎧 Spotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/7jEtOKZjbww4TCL9YfOMZF?si=490b8beed95c406b🍎 Apple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cooperant-learning-podcast/id1817490272▶️ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@cooperantlearning 🌐 Website → https://www.cooperantlearning.com
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In this episode of the Cooperant Learning Podcast, we sat down with MtG enthusiast and choice and decision-making expert Dr. Matt Brodhead to discuss what teacher choice and adherence to interventions when challenging behavior is happening in the classroom. Centering the conversation around the research article “Delay Discounting and Teacher Decision‐Making of Behavioral Interventions,”  we discuss and hypothesize why educators often prefer interventions that produce faster, “good-enough” improvements over strategies that may be more effective long-term but take longer to work. Dr. Brodhead explains delay discounting in practical terms, walks through how the Treatment Choice Questionnaire adapts classic discounting measures to classroom behavioral interventions, and explores what the findings suggest about social validity, feasibility, and BCBA collaboration in schools, especially when teachers are juggling limited training in classroom management, scarce resources, and constant outside pressure. We also make sure to touch base on Magic: The Gathering, D&D, and jam bands, because even behavior analysts need hobbies.
Guest Bio: Dr. Matt BrodheadDr. Matt Brodhead is an Associate Professor at Michigan State University and is widely recognized for his work in ethics, professionalism, and the applied practice of behavior analysis. His scholarship and applied interests include restraint and seclusion in public schools, choice and decision-making, and the social development of children with autism. He also serves as an Associate Editor for the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis (JABA) and has received multiple honors for his contributions to the field, including the ABAI Outstanding Mentor Award and the APBA Excellence in Ethical Practice Award.
Resources:
Cascarilla, A. N., Brodhead, M. T., Cox, D. J., & Sarmiento, C. M. (2025). Delay discounting and teacher decision‐making of behavioral interventions. Behavioral Interventions, https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/bin.70058
Listen now:
🎧 Spotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/7jEtOKZjbww4TCL9YfOMZF?si=490b8beed95c406b
🍎 Apple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cooperant-learning-podcast/id1817490272
▶️ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@cooperantlearning
🌐 Website → https://www.cooperantlearning.com
 
Connect with us:
📸 Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/cooperantbx/
🎵 TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@cooperantlearning
📘 Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/people/Cooperant-Learning/61564380433792/?_rdr
 

Welcome to 2026! In this episode, we dove into the world of behavioral gerontology and behavior analysis with older adults. We’re joined by Dr. Jon Baker who helped break down what behavioral gerontology is, how it’s evolved, and what current research tells us about supporting the aging community in meaningful and effective ways. At the end, Dr. Baker breaks down some actionable steps for behavior analysts who want to break into working with new populations such as the aging community.
We spoke about the challenges practitioners face in this space including bringing behaviorism to a medical model, navigating mental health concerns, isolation, and cognitive changes that come with aging.
What really stood out in this discussion is how hopeful this work can be. Even later in life, behavior is still functional, learning is still possible, and individualized, compassionate interventions can make a real difference. This episode is about seeing aging not as a closed door, but as a stage of life where thoughtful behavioral support still matters.
 
Chapters00:00 Introduction and Banter02:51 Housekeeping and Why This Topic Matters05:37 Welcoming Dr. Jon Baker08:41 What Is Behavioral Gerontology, Really?11:21 What Gerontology Looks Like in Practice14:06 Behavioral Health and Aging16:54 Do Behavioral Interventions Still Work as We Age?19:56 Challenges in Behavioral Gerontology22:57 Behavioral Plasticity and Aging26:06 Behavior as Communication28:59 Real-World Case Examples31:54 Why Individualized Approaches Matter35:04 Research Gaps and What We Still Don’t Know38:08 Mental Health and Aging41:04 Can Memory Loss Be Reversible?43:39 Brain Injury vs. Neurocognitive Disorders47:01 How to Get Into Behavioral Gerontology49:46 Sustainability of Interventions52:56 Final Thoughts and Listener Engagement
Our Guest:Dr. Jonathan Baker is chair and associate professor in the Department of Psychology at Western Michigan University.
Prior to joining WMU, he was an associate professor and coordinator of the gerontology certificate program, as well as a faculty member in the behavior analysis and therapy program in the Rehabilitation Institute at Southern Illinois University. He received a certificate in gerontology from the University of Kansas and is a Doctoral level Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA-D).
Baker is on the editorial board for the Analysis of Verbal Behavior and Behavior Analysis: Research and Practice. He has served as a guest Action Editor for TAVB and the Psychological Record, and serves as a guest reviewer for the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis, the Journal of Organizational Behavior Management, The Behavior Analyst, Behavior Analysis in Practice, The Psychological Record and The American Journal of Alzheimer’s Disease & Other Dementias.
He is also the former president of the Mid-American Association of Behavior Analysis, former chair of the Behavioral Gerontology Special Interest Group with ABAI, and is on the Board of Directors for the Behavior Analyst Certification Board.
Resources:
Behavioral gerontology at home: Retaining self-care skills in an older adult with major neurocognitive disorder through stimulus control and subtle prompt hierarchies from spousal caregiver. 
 
Expanding the Consumer Base for Behavior-Analytic Services: Meeting the Needs of Consumers in the 21st Century
 
Listen now:🎧 Spotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/7jEtOKZjbww4TCL9YfOMZF?si=490b8beed95c406b🍎 Apple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cooperant-learning-podcast/id1817490272▶️ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@cooperantlearning 🌐 Website → https://www.cooperantlearning.com
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Keywords
behavior analysis, micro-credentials, education, BCBA, training, professional development, instructional design, ABA
Summary
In this conversation, Dr. Kent Johnson discusses the evolution of competence in behavior analysis, emphasizing the need for a new approach to training and professional development. He introduces the concept of micro-credentials as a way to demonstrate mastery of specific skills, comparing and contrasting it with traditional CEUs. The discussion highlights the importance of maintaining scientific principles in the field while adapting to the changing landscape of education and practice. Johnson advocates for a grassroots approach to developing micro-credentials, aiming to enhance the relevance and effectiveness of professional development in behavior analysis.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Competence in Behavior Analysis
11:29 The Evolution of Behavior Analysis
17:06 Understanding Micro-Credentials
39:06 Micro-Credentials in Practice
55:48 Future of Micro-Credentials and CEUs
Guest
Dr. Kent Johnson:
Founder and Executive Director, Morningside Academy, Seattle, Washington, 1980 to 2023 Founder and Executive Director Emeritus, 2023 into the future
• Morningside operates a scientifically driven “catch up” school, with a program for children and youth with learning and attention problems, and a “get ahead” program for average and above-average middle school youth.
• Morningside Academy’s procedures have been formalized as The Morningside Model of Generative Instruction (MMGI), including instructional design, classroom management, teaching procedures, and student and program evaluation procedures.
Founder and Director, Morningside Teachers’ Academy, Seattle, Washington, 1990 to present Founder and Executive Director Emeritus, 2023 into the future
• Morningside is also an international center for teacher education and coaching, internships, and instructional design training. We focus upon reading, mathematics, writing, thinking, reasoning, problem-solving and organizational skills. We have implemented MMGI in 142 schools, school districts, agencies, and businesses throughout the United States and Canada since 1991. Morningside hosts an annual Morningside Summer Institute (MSI), as well as school-year trainings. See our website, www.morningsideacademy.org for details.
Author and Publisher, Morningside Press, Seattle, WA, 1990 to present
• Morningside is also a laboratory for developing instructional methods and instructional materials.
• We have published 34 instructional programs, including scripted instruction, frequency building practice exercises, and procedures for classroom implementation in reading, writing, and mathematics
President-Elect, Association for Behavior Analysis International, 2023-24 President, Association for Behavior Analysis International, 2024-2025 President, Society for Behavior Analysis, 2025-2026 (the not-for-profit arm of ABAI)
Further reading: Oregon State University: What is a micro-credential? https://ecampus.oregonstate.edu/news/what-is-a-microcredential/
Education Week: This Teacher PD Approach Has Spread to More Than 30 States https://www.edweek.org/leadership/this-teacher-pd-approach-has-spread-to-more-than-30-states/2025/05
Listen now:
🎧 Spotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/7jEtOKZjbww4TCL9YfOMZF?si=490b8beed95c406b
🍎 Apple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cooperant-learning-podcast/id1817490272
▶️ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@cooperantlearning
🌐 Website → https://www.cooperantlearning.com
Connect with us:
📸 Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/cooperantbx/
🎵 TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@cooperantlearning
📘 Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/people/Cooperant-Learning/61564380433792/?_rdr
 

Keywords
behavior analysis, parenting, parent coaching, Mandy Grass, family behaviorist, ABA, behavior management, parenting challenges, mental health
 
Kyle and Dr. Sparks welcome Mandy Grass, a BCBA and parent coach known as  @thefamilybehaviorist  on social media. They discuss Mandy's journey into behavior analysis, the challenges of parenting, and the importance of making behavior analysis accessible to all parents. Mandy shares her insights on making ABA relatable, navigating conflicting information online, and real-world applications of behavior analysis in parenting. The conversation emphasizes empathy, understanding, and practical strategies for parents facing everyday challenges.
Guest
Mandy Grass is a Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA), parent coach, and mother of three. With over a decade of experience in education and behavior analysis, she began her career as a special education teacher supporting students with significant behavioral needs before becoming a BCBA in 2015. Since then, Mandy has worked with hundreds of families and school districts to teach evidence-based strategies that help children thrive at home and in the classroom. She’s also built a community of nearly 700,000 people on social media, where she shares real-life, practical tools (and a healthy dose of humor) to make parenting feel a little lighter and a lot more doable.
Check out Mandy on TikTok and Instagram: @thefamilybehaviorist and at her website thefamilybehaviorist.com.
Listen now:
🎧 Spotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/7jEtOKZjbww4TCL9YfOMZF?si=490b8beed95c406b
🍎 Apple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cooperant-learning-podcast/id1817490272
▶️ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@cooperantlearning
🌐 Website → https://www.cooperantlearning.com
Connect with us:
📸 Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/cooperantbx/
🎵 TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@cooperantlearning
📘 Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/people/Cooperant-Learning/61564380433792/?_rdr
 

Keywords
behavior analysis, synchronous reinforcement, adult participants, health-related behaviors, staff training, research, applied behavior analysis, reinforcement schedules, clinical environments, behavior modification
Summary
Dr. Claudia Dozier and Dr. Katie McHugh discuss their research on synchronous reinforcement schedules and their application in promoting tolerance of health-related routines for adults with disabilities. The conversation covers the shift in behavior analytic research towards adult participants, the challenges of implementing synchronous schedules, and the importance of staff training in applied settings. Our guests share insights on the effectiveness of their methods, modifications made during their study, and future directions for research in this area.
Guests
Dr. Katie McHugh is a Board Certified and Licensed Behavior Analyst with over a decade of experience serving individuals with developmental disabilities across clinical, academic, and research settings. She earned her Ph.D. in Behavioral Psychology from the University of Kansas under the mentorship of Dr. Claudia Dozier, following two graduate degrees in Applied Disability Studies with a concentration in Applied Behavior Analysis from Brock University. Katie currently serves as the Clinical Director at Atlas Autism Health, where she leads clinical programming and staff development initiatives. Her research focuses on tolerance-building interventions, health-related routines, and reinforcement-based strategies for individuals with disabilities.
Dr. Dozier is Professor and Chair of the Applied Behavioral Science Department at the University of Kansas. Her research has been conducted in the clinical environments in which she and her doctoral students work (early childhood environments as well as adult service environments)---it spans both translational and applied research and across the lifespan on topics such as assessment, treatment, and prevention of behavior disorders; classroom behavior management; staff training; schedules of reinforcement; and preference and reinforcer efficacy.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction
02:54 Introducing Guests and Research
05:53 The Shift to Adult Participants in Research
11:49 Health-Related Behaviors in Research
14:53 Understanding Synchronous Schedules of Reinforcement
17:52 Comparing Synchronous and Conjugate Schedules
20:53 Applications of Synchronous Schedules in Behavior Analysis
23:48 Challenges in Implementing Synchronous Schedules
26:45 Exploring Response Cost and Reinforcement
29:55 Staff Training and Implementation Challenges
32:52 Comparing Synchronous Schedules to Graduated Exposure
35:49 Modifications and Successes in the Study
38:42 Future Directions and Ongoing Research
41:44 Concluding Thoughts and Future Research Directions
Listen now:
🎧 Spotify → https://open.spotify.com/show/7jEtOKZjbww4TCL9YfOMZF?si=490b8beed95c406b
🍎 Apple Podcasts → https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/cooperant-learning-podcast/id1817490272
▶️ YouTube → https://www.youtube.com/@cooperantlearning
🌐 Website → https://www.cooperantlearning.com
Connect with us: 📸 Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/cooperantbx/
🎵 TikTok → https://www.tiktok.com/@cooperantlearning
📘 Facebook → https://www.facebook.com/people/Cooperant-Learning/61564380433792/?_rdr
Connect with our guests
Atlas Autism Health: https://www.atlasautismhealth.com/
Dozier lab website: https://dozierresearchlab.weebly.com/
KU ABS website: https://absc.ku.edu/
Dr. Dozier ABS website: https://absc.ku.edu/people/claudia-dozier
Social media: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinelmchugh/
https://www.facebook.com/DepartmentOfAppliedBehavioralScience
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/4157382/

Keywords
Morningside Academy, education, behavior analysis, generative instruction, standardized testing, precision teaching, educational practices, teaching strategies, student growth
Takeaways
Morningside Academy focuses on students who fall behind in traditional education.
The learning guarantee ensures students make at least two years of growth.
Behavior analytic principles are integral to instructional decision-making.
Standardized testing can be useful for measuring growth but has limitations.
Precision teaching and the standard acceleration chart are effective tools for tracking progress.
Homogeneous achievement grouping is crucial for effective teaching.
Active coaching is more effective than traditional training workshops.
Project Follow Through demonstrated the effectiveness of direct instruction.
Educators should focus on creating environments that foster student engagement.
Summary
Kyle and Andrew Kieta, Executive Director at Morningside Academy, discuss the innovative practices at Morningside Academy, a school designed for students who struggle in traditional educational settings. Andrew shares insights into the academy's philosophy, the importance of behavior analysis in education, and the effectiveness of precision teaching. They also explore the role of standardized testing, the challenges educators face, and actionable steps for improving educational practices.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to the Cooperant Learning Podcast
01:48 The Journey to Morningside Academy
04:49 Understanding Morningside Academy's Philosophy
07:40 The Learning Guarantee and Student Growth
10:43 Behavior Analysis in Education
13:36 Standardized Testing and Its Implications
16:46 Precision Teaching and the Standard Acceleration Chart
24:27 Fluent Behaviors and Real-World Application
27:04 Challenges in Educational Systems
28:50 The Importance of Homogeneous Achievement Grouping
33:33 Coaching and Active Learning in Education
35:14 Project Follow Through and Its Impact
39:05 Global Educational Initiatives and Collaborations
41:49 Actionable Steps for Educators and Policymakers

Keywords
behavior analysis, healthcare, dental procedures, desensitization, phobias, virtual reality, health disparities, individuals with disabilities, systematic desensitization, quality of life
Takeaways
Healthcare is an essential aspect of behavioral intervention.
Desensitization can reduce the need for general anesthesia in dental procedures. Phobias can be reversed.
Systematic desensitization is an empirical method for "undoing" fear responses to environmental stimuli.
Virtual reality can be an effective tool for desensitization in dental settings.
Healthcare disparities affect individuals with disabilities significantly.
Quality of life should be the ultimate goal in behavioral analysis.
Behavior analysts must advocate for better healthcare access for their clients.
Understanding the root causes of behaviors can lead to better health outcomes.
The goal of treatment should be long-term health and well-being, not just immediate results.
 
Summary
In this conversation, Kyle Steury and Dr. Steve Sparks engage with Brandon Franklin, a chief behavior analyst at Lee Specialty Clinic, discussing the critical intersection of healthcare and behavior analysis. They explore the importance of addressing healthcare needs for individuals with disabilities, particularly in dental settings. Franklin shares insights from his dissertation on desensitization techniques for dental procedures, emphasizing the need for behavioral approaches to alleviate anxiety in medical settings. The discussion highlights the systemic disparities in healthcare access for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities and advocates for a focus on quality of life as the ultimate goal in behavioral programming.
Sound bites
"Phobias can be acquired through direct exposure."
"Innovative approaches can transform dental care."
"Quality of life should be the ultimate goal."
Chapters
00:00 Brandon Franklin's Background and Experience
04:23 Dissertation Focus: Dental Procedures and Desensitization
12:46 Healthcare Disparities and Access Issues
17:35 Phobias and Systematic Desensitization
21:30 The Roots of Phobia
22:48 Understanding Fear: Systematic Desensitization Explained
32:06 Innovative Approaches: Virtual Reality in Desensitization
44:16 Needle Phobia: Insights and Implications for Healthcare
48:55 Beyond Goals: Focusing on Long-Term Health Outcomes
 
Brandon M. Franklin, MS, BCBA, LBA, is a highly experienced and dedicated Board-Certified Behavior Analyst and Licensed Behavior Analyst, currently serving as Chief Behavior Analyst at Lee Specialty Clinic. With a career spanning over a decade in the field of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA), Brandon has built a reputation for clinical excellence, compassionate care, and leadership in behavioral healthcare services for individuals with developmental disabilities. Brandon is actively pursuing his Ph.D. in Applied Behavior Analysis at Cambridge College, further deepening his expertise in evidence-based interventions. He holds a Master of Science in ABA from Spalding University and a Bachelor of Science in Justice Administration from the University of Louisville. He is licensed as a behavior analyst in both Kentucky and Tennessee.
Email: FranklinDevelopmentalHealth@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-franklin-64225494/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealbeefee
Website: https://leespecialtyclinic.com
 

In today's conversation Andrew Bulla joins CL to explore the intersections of behavior analysis and animal training. They discuss the importance of assent, the LIMA principle, and the role of animal models in understanding behavior. Andrew shares his journey from working with neurodivergent individuals to training animals, emphasizing the lessons behavior analysts can learn from animal trainers. The discussion highlights the significance of choice, autonomy, and functional analysis in behavior change, as well as the need for integrating insights from animal training into behavior analysis practices.
 
Dr. Andrew Bulla earned his Bachelor’s degree from Saint Joseph’s University in psychology with a minor in autism studies. Upon graduating, he completed his master’s and doctoral degrees in behavior analysis from Western Michigan University, and subsequently became a Board-Certified Behavior Analyst in 2014. He is currently an associate professor of psychology and program chair for behavior analysis programs at Georgia Southern University – Armstrong Campus. Drew is also a consultant for Morningside Teachers’ Academy, where he helps coordinate and run the Summer Institute to teach individuals all over the world about the Morningside Model of Generative Instruction. Drew has worked at a variety of organizations over the course of his career including autism centers, community mental health agencies, animal facilities, several school districts, and internationally with schools in Lima, Peru delivering consultative services in Spanish. During his time in these positions, Dr. Bulla applied behavior analysis to a variety of learners and situations. He has worked in autism early intervention, ancillary programs including social and recreational skills, the assessment and treatment of challenging behaviors, academic interventions for students with and without disabilities, instructional design, and animal training including loggerhead sea turtles and grey wolves. Drew has published and conducted research in the areas of self-management, instructional design, precision teaching, physical activity, the experimental analysis of behavior, and animal training and welfare. He has published his research in a variety of journals including the Journal of the Experimental Analysis of Behavior, The Mexican Journal of Behavior Analysis, Behavior Analysis in Practice, Journal of Behavioral Education, The European Journal of Behavior Analysis, Psychology in the Schools, and Behavior Analysis: Research and Practice. Dr. Bulla has presented over 100 peer-reviewed presentations, posters, and workshops at regional, national, and international conferences. He is currently a board member for the Standard Celeration Society and has served as the Lead Guest Editor for a special issue of Behavior Analysis in Practice on precision teaching, and is currently on the editorial boards for Behavior Analysis and Practice and Behavior and Social Issues.